I'm currently trying to play through the game with the Sword Coast Stratagems II mod. I like the AI improvements, for the most part, since the game had become too easy. But there's one thing I absolutely hate, one thing that is ruining the game for me... the backstabbing thieves. Every fight against a group with thieves (and they're everywhere) leaves me dead. They start off the fights invisible, they immediately start backstabbing the weakest party member, and within a few seconds my group is dropping like flies. It's early in the game, I can't cast true sight yet, and even if my level was high enough I don't have enough money to buy permission from the Cowled Wizards. This one aspect of an otherwise good mod has made the game basically unplayable.

Does anyone know if there's a way to add a barbarian's backstab immunity to characters through ShadowKeeper? It's the only way I can think to make this mod salvageable.

I suggest adding Keldorn to the party. His True Sight ability will render those thieves impotent. Before his True Sight kicks in, make sure your characters run away from the thieves and don't stand still.
If it's like the BG1 version of SCS the thieves will usually have 2-3 invisibilty potions, so you need to hit them hard and kill them ASAP. I don't remember if wands are allowed in Athkala, but if they are, don't hesitate using them. Also, use your own thief(s) to backstab the enemy

I've already played through the game with Keldorn as an inquisitor. With this go-around I've edited the characters to be classes I haven't played with before, and nobody has innate true sight. Even if they did, I wouldn't want to have to do it every time thieves go invisible. I find this aspect of the mod to be unbelievably cheap, and want to nullify it so I can still take advantage of the generally nice AI improvements it offers.

I found instructions somewhere about adding immunities, and followed the instructions. It basically involves adding this to everyone's affects in Shadowkeeper:

0x00000065
0
263
0x00000001
0
100
0x00000001

It didn't work. Then I discovered that the gargoyle boots in the game gave permanent backstab immunity. So I gave every character in the party a pair and equipped them. And then... the thieves keep backstabbing everyone for quadruple damage and killing someone within the first few seconds of a fight.

What the hell do I have to do? Is backstab immunity in this game just a myth?

SCS is modular. Just uninstall the Potions for NPCs component.

I was readjusting the individual parts of the mod earlier, and I don't remember seeing a component that removes NPC potions. There's one that affects how many of their potions get broken after you kill them, but that's the only one that I remember seeing. Besides, I like how the enemies use potions frequently now. It's just the invisibility that's killing me.

Also, the thieves don't appear to be vanishing purely by potions. I think they're just using their hide in shadows ability. I can't know for sure, since most of them somehow start off fights invisible and only make their presence known after gang-backstabbing somebody.

Anyway... does anyone know if immunity to backstab is genuinely impossible to attain in this game by any means, even through item and character editors?

The counter for 'True Sight' is 'SI:Div'.

The counter for 'SI:Div' is 'Dispel'.

The counter for 'Dispel' is 'SI:ADJ'.

BTW The counter for those Backstabbing Thieves is having your own 'Detect Illusions' Thief... In my experience with SCS having115 points in DI will always work.

"Potions For NPCs" is the same component, it also lets you change how many potions are dropped from dead enemies. And thieves can ONLY go invisible in mid-battle by using potions; the Hide-In-Shadows ability is not possible in sight of the enemy. (AD&D rules). And you know they used a potion when you see them "Gulp!" in the dialog console. So the simple solution would be to just remove the component. No big loss quite frankly, if you are so frustrated as to be looking at SK hacks.

Admittedly the backstabbing got on my nerves as well. BTW, Jan Jensen has 100 for Detect Illusion (and some fashionable stereoscopic goggles) - set his script to "Thief Adventurer" to always detect traps.

At any rate, you might get more informative results by asking on the SCSII forums.

To follow up my post, I guess you were mainly talking about surviving the initial round. I never had any problems with that so much, it was always the second and third cowardly backstabs from potions that killed my fun. Once you level up a bit though and acquire more ways to counter illusions, it becomes more manageable.

Just curious, if you also installed SCS "Smarter Mages" (with pre-buffing!) and "Improved Vampires" - they make the thieves look like low-level henchmen. (LOL)

Isn't it unfair when the enemie use your own cowardly tactics against you? ;-)

It sure is, LOL! ;D

Speaking of, they actually taught me a trick or two. One of the annoying things was that they were always backstabbing me to my face! I mean, talk about indecency, not to mention against the rules - you're supposed to stand behind someone when you stab them in the back! ;) Looking into it, I found out it seems to be an engine / scripting limitation, but I did discover a mod The Bigg Tweak Pack: "Party members can face-stab too!" (thanks to TobEx). So at least now we can backstab successfully even if not in that perfect 90 degree angle behind the target. Was always a nuisance when everyone gets in position to attack, then Jan stuffs it up on a technicality.

// Filed under "If you cannot beat them, join them!" ;P