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GameRager: I am so glad I use console for such newer games(for the most part), then.....those sizes would eat my drives alive.
Presumably that's because on consoles the games don't have 4k visual content. In all likelihood the upcoming generation will target 4k, though, and the size will follow.

I saw a news recently that only 2% of steam users play in 4k. Yet the fuss about the topic is as if everyone uses it. Also all the 100% of the users must download those 4k data. It baffles me they won't make it optional.
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nightcraw1er.488: RDR2 is 150gb compressed!
Hitman 2 is 149 gb when installed too. I was shocked when first discovered shadow of war required 100 gb. And now this.
Post edited November 11, 2019 by f1e
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mw.834515: glad you like it :-)
Experience collected over a period of more than 2 decades.
And "overkill" is my 2nd first name - which includes my backup strategy.
I can be your counterpart then....call me mr underkill. :)

(I don't backup much...dunno why....maybe due to laziness and also the cost)

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mw.834515: parents, work, friends...
Not a special rented room/box. That would be overkill and if someone tries to really go for your data+all backups, they would search the rented rooms too (linked to you via payment/credit card/etc).
You can call me paranoid :-)
You could rent such rooms/box in another name or have someone unrelated to you do it I guess....also by that logic couldn't work/friends/parents also be traced due to being associated to you?

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mw.834515: I disagree. I have a backup at my parents house and i know, how my parents act with their data (careless). I do trust my parents, but they could corrupt my backup by accident and i have little chance to find out, what got damaged (other than always doing a full sync with another working backup).
Encryption ensures, that the backup didn't get changed. Nobody can switch a single file (replace an installer with a trojan for example) in a backup consisting of million files (yes, there are million of files in my backup). Paranoid, i know :-)
I meant if one encrypts mainly to keep people from Viewing said data than its not needed to encrypt it all.

Also a secure lock on the place with said data and other measures(good hiding place maybe) can prevent people from even getting at the drives in the first place.

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mw.834515: Also if you have (for example) 5MB of sensitive data and 1 TB of uninteresting (i.e. gog installer) and you only encrypt those 5 MB, everyone knows, that you have 5MB sensitive data. And I do have sensitive data (from my point of view) in my backup, health info like blood-pressure history, registration info (for websites), ...
If you encrypt everything, you can say "I always encrypt everything... /shrug"
This falls into "plausible deniability" (important for encryption). This is the reason you fully encrypt empty/new drives, so no one can find out, how much sensitive data you have on it.
Even if you encrypt everything people will still wonder why you even bother using encryption.....and they'd still have to decrypt it anyways, so even if they knew which data to target it'd likely take them a long time to do so either way.
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nightcraw1er.488: I use about 14tb currently, the rest is raid 5 redundancy and space to grow. So 5*6= 24tb space plus one drive fail fall over. That’s about what I need, and 6tb we red are reasonable price for what they store, 4tb is £154, 6tb is £182, 8 is £223, so £28 diff for 4-6, £41 for 6-8 and 10tb is way more. So overall 6tb drives are about right for the job. If you have less, just use smaller hdds. I had 4*2tb in my first one.
At this point I am so poor i'd maybe get an external to supplement the mem sticks and call it a day, but those are some good prices for storage.

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nightcraw1er.488: So in your example, 5*2tb drives, raid 5 (effectively drop one drive to allow the fail over) would give you your 8tb storage plus if one drive failed you could rebuild the array. That is of course only one back, you would want other copies in case the whole device broke or all the drives went at the same time. As stated above raid is not back, just a safety net for one drive failure. If your never going to go particularly high then you may be better off just getting usb drives at the size you think you need , e.g get a few 8tb we elements, and make multiple clones (you would want more as a single drive failure=total loss in this instance).
As said above i'd likely just get 1 backup drive and use mem sticks as the new 2nd backup.....plus i'm not as attached to most of my data as some can get(no offense meant by that).

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nightcraw1er.488: As a final note, as mentioned size is always going up, if you plan on making videos available (I have all my old dvds on there) these take up a fair bit of room, and obviously blue rays are a factor larger in storage, and the latest 8k films will be a factor more. Not too mention games are factoring up in scale, RDR2 is 150gb compressed!
Thankfully I don't see a need for 8K(or even 4K).....my eyes found a sweet spot in 1080p....so I can save space that way as well as only saving stuff I truly need to.

(Also for some games I use console and a game drive if need be)

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f1e: Presumably that's because on consoles the games don't have 4k visual content. In all likelihood the upcoming generation will target 4k, though, and the size will follow.
Then i'd likely cut back on new games downloaded, or only DL the ones being played(for console titles).

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f1e: I saw a news recently that only 2% of steam users play in 4k. Yet the fuss about the topic is as if everyone uses it. Also all the 100% of the users must download those 4k data. It baffles me they won't make it optional.
This is why scene releases(for bought games of course) are great...they strip out unneeded data in some versions like extra languages/4K/etc.
Post edited November 11, 2019 by GameRager
My GOG game installers currently go to one 5TB 2.5" USB hard drive. Yes, only one at this point because I can still (re)download my games from GOG servers too, if needed.

I have lots of other stuff on two identical 8 TB HDDs which are sitting on a HDD dock station like this:

https://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/product/19413/hbhdr/Fuj-tech-Clone-Dock-2-USB-3-0-telakka-kahdelle-2-5-3-5-SATA?list=OZCYkROZFeEKyury9v7TKClhHJ92CRFhcm9ONrApkCzgJvH

The HDDs are 7200rpm Seagate IronWolf 3,5"

https://www.gigantti.fi/product/tietokoneet/kovalevyt-ssd-ja-verkkotallennus-nas/ST8000VN0022/seagate-ironwolf-3-5-sisainen-nas-kovalevy-8-tb

They are otherwise ok... but they get VERY hot in use. I think I already fried one (got a new one under warranty) when it was merely sitting on that HDD dock station in open air, I think it just became too hot even though the room temperature was only like 22 C and it was freely sitting in open air. They are very hot to touch and HDDScan also constantly warned their temperatures are too high.

So nowadays whenever I use those IronWolf hard drives, I point a fan shooting air at them constantly, that keeps them cool. I thought being in open air would be enough to cool them down, but apparently not, they really need constant air flow around them to dissipate enough heat.

I don't understand though why USB HDDs don't seem to generate as much heat? I've never had similar heat problems with them. Are they all slower 5000 RPM HDDs or what?
Post edited November 12, 2019 by timppu
Related to backups, lately I've been trying to study using alternative filesystems for my backup hard drives, filesystems which have built-in checksum checks for all files. Filesystems like btrfs and OpenZFS, instead of older filesystems like NTFS, ext4 or XFS which don't have built-in integrity check for files.

Currently my backup hard drives are using NTFS, and the new filesystem needs to be usable, at least accessible, also from Windows (I think at least btrfs has a Windows driver). So while I may do most of my backup operations on Linux, of course my GOG game installers need to be accessible also on Windows as that is where I mainly install and play them.

Currently I use dvdsig, rhash and TeraCopy to try to make sure my backups don't get corrupted, but that is too much extra work and isn't flawless anyway (e.g. if I change a file in the archive, a new checksum is not generated automatically).
Post edited November 12, 2019 by timppu
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timppu: I don't understand though why USB HDDs don't seem to generate as much heat? I've never had similar heat problems with them. Are they all slower 5000 RPM HDDs or what?
Yes, most of them are.
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timppu: I don't understand though why USB HDDs don't seem to generate as much heat? I've never had similar heat problems with them. Are they all slower 5000 RPM HDDs or what?
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Green_Hilltop: Yes, most of them are.
I originally wanted 5400 RPM HDDs, but I couldn't locate one which would be big enough (8TB). I don't need them to be as fast as possible, especially as I am using them over USB (3.0). And the speed difference doesn't seem to be that big anyway, something like 5400RPM = 100MB/s and 7200RPM = 120MB/s.

I figured that IronWolf should be ok as it is targeted for professional ultrahyperduper NAS use or something, but they definitely run the hottest I've felt (comparing to my older 3TB, 2TB, 500GB etc. HDDs, many of which I still use for various purposes).
Post edited November 12, 2019 by timppu
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timppu: So nowadays whenever I use those IronWolf hard drives, I point a fan shooting air at them constantly, that keeps them cool. I thought being in open air would be enough to cool them down, but apparently not, they really need constant air flow around them to dissipate enough heat.

I don't understand though why USB HDDs don't seem to generate as much heat? I've never had similar heat problems with them. Are they all slower 5000 RPM HDDs or what?
The problem is that most HDDs are put in cases which have cooling.....they normally need cooling same as everything is...especially if they are cheaper/more cr*p quality HDDs.

If you can find a dock/enclosure with an exhaust fan/cooler i'd get that to be safe.

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timppu: I originally wanted 5400 RPM HDDs, but I couldn't locate one which would be big enough (8TB). I don't need them to be as fast as possible, especially as I am using them over USB (3.0). And the speed difference doesn't seem to be that big anyway, something like 5400RPM = 100MB/s and 7200RPM = 120MB/s.
That extra 20MB/s is very important, though, if one has a ton of large files/large amount of data in general, though.....also iirc 5400 RPM drives are slowly being phased out.
Post edited November 12, 2019 by GameRager
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timppu: Currently my backup hard drives are using NTFS, and the new filesystem needs to be usable, at least accessible, also from Windows (I think at least btrfs has a Windows driver).
Back a few years was able to install a Ext4 driver on windows to access some Linux Mint files, can't remember the program name though. Probably there are some stuff for other file systems as well, even if not natively.
My 4 TB internal drive isn't big enough anymore when I run my gogrepo sync... My next step is moving to NAS.

Some if this is GOG's fault, because of when they unbundled games, MANY extras are duplicated. And the whole Witcher 3/Witcher 3 GOTY duplication... And lack of language marking on some files so I end up with gigs of polish documentaries because extras aren't labeled under languages...
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mqstout: My 4 TB internal drive isn't big enough anymore when I run my gogrepo sync... My next step is moving to NAS.

Some if this is GOG's fault, because of when they unbundled games, MANY extras are duplicated. And the whole Witcher 3/Witcher 3 GOTY duplication... And lack of language marking on some files so I end up with gigs of polish documentaries because extras aren't labeled under languages...
Why NAS specifically? Unless you have a burning need to access your files around the world, it’s just opening one of your backups to the dangers of the internet, unless you put it to local network only, and the question is why bother spending the extra money on a NAS when a DAS is cheaper, and safer all round.

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GameRager: ...snip
Just to come back to the “happy with 1080 and console”, really? I have a gsync uhd widescreen and ac odyssey on that from pc versus had output from PS4 is so much better, crisper, faster (unlocked fps), larger view area etc. Not too mention if you ps dies then you have to go through the process of removing one ps as main machine and installing a new one on you PlayStation account to be able to play without logging in, that’s drm. Or even worse you are M$ online only Xbox and have to rely on them 100%. I have no issues with consoles as such, but I don’t consider them a backup of any sort.
Post edited November 12, 2019 by nightcraw1er.488
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nightcraw1er.488: Why NAS specifically? Unless you have a burning need to access your files around the world, it’s just opening one of your backups to the dangers of the internet, unless you put it to local network only, and the question is why bother spending the extra money on a NAS when a DAS is cheaper, and safer all round.
I have 4+ computers in my house and regularly use them. And I don't use it only for GOG games, but all my stuff, with backups, etc. The 4TB drive in that Linux box is only GOG games though.

Also, the SATA slots on my gaming machine are full. And USB is slow.

And no, there's no "dangers of the Internet" here.

Being NAS has great tools available, such as cloud sync and deduplication (if you want it) and other things that operate on that device rather than me needing to dedicate another machine for it.
Post edited November 12, 2019 by mqstout
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mqstout: And no, there's no "dangers of the Internet" here.
Nice to meet you, fellow utopia citizen!
low rated
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nightcraw1er.488: Just to come back to the “happy with 1080 and console”, really?
I wasn't trying to insult you with that.....just saying I see no need for it(also data suggests that over 4K and your brain literally cannot tell the difference[most people....there are rare exceptions to everything] anyways)

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nightcraw1er.488: I have a gsync uhd widescreen and ac odyssey on that from pc versus had output from PS4 is so much better, crisper, faster (unlocked fps), larger view area etc.
It might be, but then part of that could be bias/what one wants to see(not saying in your case it is, but that it could play a factor)....also again, above a certain HD(1080p) I see little extra difference, or at least I don't consider it worth upgrading past that point.

To me, gameplay(mechanics/story/etc) are usually somewhat more important than much higher graphics.

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nightcraw1er.488: Not to mention if you ps dies then you have to go through the process of removing one ps as main machine and installing a new one on you PlayStation account to be able to play without logging in, that’s drm. Or even worse you are M$ online only Xbox and have to rely on them 100%. I have no issues with consoles as such, but I don’t consider them a backup of any sort.
I wasn't trying to suggest using them as a backup.....just that they allow me to test some games and play games my PC cannot handle.
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KingKannibal: I need any solution I decide on to be portable and USB3.0 without external power if I can help it. I wouldn't mind carrying around a 3.5" in an enclosure even though it'd be a bit heavy. Don't really have a need to have a stacked storage enclosure at the moment but thanks for reminding me that's an option.
It depends on how paranoid you want to be about it. I'd personally have two external drives and forgo RAID striping, one a desktop model and the other a portable one. In an evacuation emergency you can just nab the portable one, but as for drive failure you'd have to be extremely unlucky to have both crap out on you at the same time.
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mqstout: And no, there's no "dangers of the Internet" here.
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teceem: Nice to meet you, fellow utopia citizen!
I meant with regard to using a NAS.