So it's just a flavour issue? Because "Ninja" can't be loud? Then should we consider Beloved Paranoid Gun owner a bastard role because no one connects a paranoid gun owner of being beloved?

What if I create a flavoured game like the NRA one and instead of Ninja call it "Timid Pacifist" and instead of Loud call it "Smelly", will it be non-bastard then?

Bastard roles are ones which change the role in a major way not expected by the player. A Naive Doctor or Insane Cop are classic examples.

Loud is a normal role, if we accept Loud Ninja to be a bastard, then there is no reason not to consider Loud Strongman to be a bastard or even Loud Vanilla Scum to be one. In all cases the modifier add only a minor difference (none in most cases where NK is successful, a small hindrance - depending if the mod tells the target who targeted him; Joe didn't tell me - in the few cases where NK is not successful). Either we consider all Loud scum roles to be bastard, or none at all. There is no reason to single out Ninja since its only connection to Loud is a flavour reason, and flavour shouldn't really matter when it comes to bastardness.

No, not relevant to this game. I'm ok with continuing this discussion in the admin thread after the game is over.

same here. I want to see what agent has to say.

really sorry, I've been at work and I've got to get off now and I've no time to do a vote count so it'll be later on. If there are any fraidy-cats reading the game who fancy doing a vote count for us till then go ahead!

sorry again

I'm no 'fraidy-cat, but I did do a votecount. Hope everything is correct. Let me know if I missed a vote.

With 12 player, 7 is a majority

5 – Agentcarr—GameRager, Nmillar, RedFireGaming, SirPrimalForm, Trentonlf
1 – Korotan—Agentcarr

0 – Blotunga
0 – ZFR
0 – LOLchan
0 – Lifthrasil
0 – RedFireGaming
0 – GameRager
0 – PookaMustard
0 – SirPrimalform
0 – NMillar
0 – Trentonlf

Not Voting: LOLChan, Korotan, Blotunga, Lift, ZFR, PookaMustard

Agent is closest to lynch at L–2

Technically you need to bold your unvote for it to count officially. ;)

=====================

That last line MAY be wrong....as Agent was(as ZFR claimed) at L-1 when he unvoted 6 hours or so ago, and then LOLChan sort of unvoted(but not officially) and no one sle did(that I noticed).

So either your math is off and agent is at L-3, OR agent was lynched alreade even before ZFR unvoted.

=================================

To OP: OP Can you verify this bit please.....if Agent was indeed lynched before post 175 or not? I am guessing ZFR was right in post 175 and that agent was at L-1(before he unvoted) and is now(after LOLChan's unvote) at L-3. Thanks in advance.

=================================

I really would like to have your input on the direct contradiction with trent, before I put my vote on either of you. Right now I think the best strategy is to lynch you and if you flip town, lynch trent next. Because at least one of you two has to be scum.

I don't see LOLchan ever voting for agent in the first place.

You are correct, it seems(from my skimming of the thread's last 7 pages or so). My bad.

Well now we play and the waiting game and see whagt(if anything) agent wants to say on the matter. We also need to poke LOLChan to post a bit more(they have like a handful of posts over the last 7 or so pages) to get a better read on them and their thought on others.

Yes, my point was that one of them is lying, not that agentcarr is definitely lying. Gamerager seemed to be saying that trent should only find it suspicious if he was being accused of being scum at the moment and that it didn't make sense for him to have a problem with being accused of previously being scum. I was simply explaining why that was bollocks.

I hope we do continue.


But that's not what we were talking about. You were wondering why town!trent would care about being accused of being scum!trent in the past. It would certainly matter if trent knew that to be untrue!

I'm not arguing that trent is telling the truth and that agentcarr is lying, I'm just saying why it matters because you didn't seem to have grasped the significance.

town/town!trent would know that agentcarr is lying for some unknown reason.
scum/town!trent would not have a reason to lie.
scum/scum!trent would probably admit to being scum in the past too and just claim that he is town now.

As I said(iirc) most of that was based on a skim read and missing some info in some posts. I have adjusted my stance as of late.

Still, back then I didn't(and still don't) see why one should take what trent(or anyone) says at face value.....to do so without scrutinizing everything one could would make one a fool of varying degrees, imo.

I don't think anyone was suggesting we assume trent is telling the truth, just the mutual exclusivity of their claims. One of them must be lying for some reason.

Agreed. Now to see which it is. I will keep my vote on agent and if he turns out to be town(rare but possible) then I will look at trent's posts more carefully the next "day".

Well, that wasn't exactly as I expected that to play out. Trent's lying about never being scum, so I guess he's still scum. Though, as SirPrimalForm pointed out, I would have expected a scum/scum!trent to admit to being scum in the past too and just claim that he is town now.

Vote trentonlf

It wasn't a matter of outing myself. It was a matter of OP not giving me enough information. Would you allow a player to accidentally cryptoclaim themself out of the game?

Funny, I didn't actually out myself and then try to take someone down with me, which is what this hypothesis would require. According to you, I took someone down with me... and then deliberately outed myself? Scum trying to one-for-one with Town is never going to work out.

I'll just leave this here...


I'm online for a bit. Did I miss any specific questions?

What about various people stating that it would likely be game breaking to change some scum to town as they would know the other scum?

That's why Scum were rerolled, I guess. I knew the scum team, but got rerolled, so I have to assume trent also got rerolled.