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General discussionWhat is a good gaming laptop these days?(78 posts)(78 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 26, 2021
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timppu: ....
I'm not criticising your personal need for flexibility... but how many places do you have where you put your laptop, that provide:
Great sound
Great screen
Great ergonomics
(all combined)
e.g. connecting your laptop to the TV might provide the first two, but the ergonomics will always be sub-par when using a mouse+keyboard.
Post edited February 26, 2021 by teceem
Posted February 26, 2021
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timppu: ...
Any recommendations for preserving battery life?
Posted February 26, 2021
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rtcvb32: Laptop are low energy usage, proprietary, nonmodular, can't fix/update anything, and what you get is a craps shoot.
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timppu: You can't fix/update the CPU or GPU, but lots of other parts in laptops, especially gaming laptops, are replaceable.

Naturally e.g. RAM and HDDs/SSDs can normally be replaced. Some laptop models may have soldered RAM, but even to those you can add more RAM. I think especially in gaming laptops it is much more common that all RAM sticks can be replaced, if needed.

I myself have e.g. replaced the two fans on my 8-9 years old gaming laptop, all by myself. It is not like laptops are generally glued together so that nothing can be replaced, unless you are talking about iPhone or iPad but they are not laptops, are they?

Naturally certain parts would need a specific replacement part from the laptop manufacturer itself (e.g. the internal keyboard, or the integrated screen), but so far I haven't been able to break down the screen even on my oldest laptops (if something has broken for good, it has been something else besides the screen), and for the keyboard... well, if the keyboard would really break down, you'd still have an option to use an external USB or wireless keyboard with the laptop. I use external keyboards with my laptops quite often.

Then again, the chiclet-type keyboards on laptops also seem quite durable, again I haven't encountered a broken keyboard on my oldest laptops.

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rtcvb32: Then there's the OS. I remember things working fine on XP. Then go to Vista and you needed 2Gb just for Aero (which i never used) and the OS was slow and clunky and thankfully i opted to stay with XP. (And there's a repeat with 10 now...)
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timppu: I have no idea what that has anything to do with laptops, but whatever...

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rtcvb32: If you want to spend thousands on a laptop be my guest. I'm sure you can run the latest games on it.
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timppu: Well, it isn't really like you can buy a gaming desktop which can run latest games with raytracing in ultra settings for under 2000€ or so either, considering that the graphics card alone can easily cost up to 1000€.

There is very high variance in price with gaming laptops, and clearly some manufactures have a much higher premium price for a gaming laptop performance level that you can get much cheaper from some other manufacturer. That is one of the reasons I am looking at those XMG gaming laptops, they seem to offer quite good bang for the buck.

Sometimes when i consider if I should buy a gaming desktop instead of a laptop, I go to check how much some 8-core Ryzen system with RTX 3060 or 3070 might cost (RAM, SSD, monitor included)... and then I find out geez it costs already closer to 3000€! And some make it sound like you can buy a whole gaming desktop PC for like 700€ (monitor included) and it will run all the latest games at 4K ultra and raytracing at full. That doesn't seem to be the case at all.

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Orkhepaj: and how do they use the laptop , just plug it into a docker and use external keyboard mouse monitor?
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timppu: I use my laptops both ways. Sometimes they are even connected to the TV, and I operate them with a wireless keyboard and mouse. Wheee!

Just because it is a laptop, does not mean you have to keep it only on your lap and operate it using its trackpad, if there is a perfectly good desk available and you can also use an external keyboard/mouse. Why not to use them, if you can?
I haven't done this, but this can be done w/ laptop to set-up a desktop-style GPU with it.

If you have Thunderbolt 3 (or better) - you can:
1. Get a small case (to put a desktop-style graphics card in).
2. A PSU (to handle the GPU's power/wattage).
3. Connect though TB3...but, expect the percentage in power-less to be huge (i.e. around 30%, IIRC).

Though, expect this method...to be pricey.
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schewy: Alternatively, I have found that laptops with a thunderbolt-3 port (not usb-c) and an eGPU have by far the best performance at this stage of tech. However, if you decide to go this route, you should consider a 4-core mobile GPU at least.
I'm curious: have you tried this method for yourself?

If you have, I'd love to hear more details on this - especially on performance.
Post edited February 26, 2021 by MysterD
Posted February 26, 2021
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rojimboo: I just find the whole notion of them being 'lap'tops, portable things that you can keep on your lap etc. as being fanciful.
It depends what you mean by "portable".

To me "portable" means something you can quite easily pack and move from A to B, and use it at the new location. For instance, if I decide i want to move this laptop from this bedroom work desk to the living room coffee table near the couch and use it there instead: can do, within a minute or two.

Or, pack it into my backpack and take it with me to Thailand, and use it there? Yep, can do, no problem.

Laptops, even the bulkier gaming laptops, easily fit into that category. Desktops never really do, especially if you want to pack your monitor and keyboard etc. with you as well.

What you seem to be describing as "portable" is what I call "mobile", ie. use it in a crowded bus where you can barely move, or maybe even use it while you are standing in a street corner. That is what smartphones and tablets, and maybe the very smallest and thinnest laptops, are. Mobile, using them while on the move.

90% of the time I use all my laptops on some flat surface (normally a desk), with an external mouse (because I don't like trackpads and only use them if I have no choice on the matter), and connected to the power (because why not, if there is power available?).

If I don't have a desk available and really need to go online or something, then I'd probably want to use a a smartphone or tablet instead. Only in very rare and specific cases I'd still choose to use a laptop in such a case, like that I need to write a novel without a desk.

Also, if I was a crowded bus or some other place where there is no desk and privacy, the last thing I'd probably want to do is to start playing Cyberpunk 2077 on a laptop (or a desktop, for that matter).
Posted February 26, 2021
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timppu: 90% of the time I use all my laptops on some flat surface (normally a desk), with an external mouse (because I don't like trackpads and only use them if I have no choice on the matter), and connected to the power (because why not, if there is power available?).
THat being my point - why bother with a laptop then, when the usercase suits a desktop much better?

Only when you value portability (or moving locations I guess like you said) compared to the cons of a gaming laptop vs a desktop, like increased cost, noise and heat and reduced performance, upgradeability and configurability, does a gaming laptop make a lot of sense. I would argue space is not really a gaming laptop pro, as there might be many peripherals on the desk, with a cooling pad with 3 fans, and possibly an external monitor. But if you limit the gaming experience, sure, you can count saving space as a pro.

In any case, one should seriously weigh the pros and cons here. I would never go back to having a gaming laptop as my main rig, for example, speaking from experience. And this is as someone who moved a 20kg custom watercooled Coolermaster Cosmos tower across a continent in extra luggage for 2 flights. And that was a major PITA and nightmare, yet I would still do it NOT to have the ordeal of laptop gaming.
Posted February 26, 2021
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rojimboo: And this is as someone who moved a 20kg custom watercooled Coolermaster Cosmos tower across a continent in extra luggage for 2 flights. And that was a major PITA and nightmare, yet I would still do it NOT to have the ordeal of laptop gaming.
If I may ask; why did you do that?
Posted February 26, 2021
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teceem: I think the reason in my example is valid for gaming laptops as well: if space is an issue. Though, personally, I can't imagine living somewhere where you can't put a desk dedicated to a desktop PC (low to average income, urban Asia?).
Well, back when I was single and later for a couple of years with my girlfriend (now wife), I lived in a 31m2 one room apartment in Helsinki for many years. A laptop was very useful there as sometimes I would use it on a small table that was between the small couch and the TV, sometimes I used it on the dinner table (not during dinners though) etc.

In our current three-bedroom (+ living room) apartment I'd have more room for a desktop... but here I like laptops for the ability to move them to different rooms when needed. For instance, if I want to play online with my son so that we are sitting side by side so that we can all the time see each others screens and talk without headphones... can't imagine we'd try to do that with two desktops side by side. A desktop and a laptop maybe, but even better is two laptops side by side.
Posted February 26, 2021
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teceem: If I may ask; why did you do that?
Well since you asked, apart from the RL reasons of moving countries and changing jobs, I realised selling the gaming rig would not only be very difficult and timeconsuming, but I would get very little in return compared to the value of it. Selling it at a loss goes without saying, but there are limits to how something I handpicked and built with expensive parts, I would be willing to let go for.

So even though I paid for it (in more ways than one), it was worth it to have a superior rig with all the bells and whistles in my new home. In a way, it saved me the cost of buying and building a similar rig all over again, despite the flight extra luggage costs. And major PITAness. Did I mention what a pain it was dragging that behemoth?? No? I will.

I'm not just talking about CPU+GPU+mobo and the standard stuff though in that rig, I could probably part with those. But I spent an exuberant(?) amount of time building the custom watercooling loop for the GPU+CPU triple rad combo, with all the components handpicked. Hell, I even sawed off the GPU fan shroud for access for the waterblock and VRAM coolers. Yes, I took a saw to my GPU. mwahahah (psycho laugh).

Of course some years later I got rid of it, especially the bulky and quite ugly metal tower and didn't even bother with water cooling this time. Then later, for a whole year I endured with a gaming laptop (what a horrid downgrade), hence my apprehension at gaming on laptops vs desktops.
Posted February 26, 2021
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rojimboo: Well since you asked, ...
Thanks for sharing your story!
It's what I thought it would be - moving and trying to save some money. It still seems like an expensive endeavour, moving your life to a distant location... (as an adult, not moving out of your parents' place)
Posted February 26, 2021
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teceem: Thanks for sharing your story!
It's what I thought it would be - moving and trying to save some money. It still seems like an expensive endeavour, moving your life to a distant location... (as an adult, not moving out of your parents' place)
Yeah, it's never easy and you do lose alot despite the promise of gaining more in the future at the new place you end up in. I'm not just talking about the initial financial hit.

The worst is losing contact with friends and loved ones. But you should also consider what uprooting from one home to another country actually means, even if temporarily. Cultural differences, language barriers, other barriers of entry into the society and economy - major pains to help you get started with your new life. These are things people often forget when chasing a new job with a higher salary and a promise of greater promotions. Or at least, they underestimate them.

I would still do it all over again, back then. Even dragging that behemoth across the world, despite the major PITA. That particular decision was not really rooted in practicality...
Posted February 27, 2021
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teceem: I'm not criticising your personal need for flexibility... but how many places do you have where you put your laptop, that provide:
Great sound
Great screen
Great ergonomics
(all combined)
e.g. connecting your laptop to the TV might provide the first two, but the ergonomics will always be sub-par when using a mouse+keyboard.
Depends where you draw the line, what is "great sound, screen, ergonomics" etc.

After all, haven't we all heard the arguments from dedicated console players how PC gaming in general is stupid because you'll be staring at a "small" monitor instead of a 100" TV, you'll be listening to some crummy Creative "multimedia speakers" instead of the Bazooka 5000 Surround Sound DTS LTS home theater sound system that is connected to that TV, and sitting on an uncomfortable desktop chair instead of lying like a king on a big comfy sofa, playing Final Fantasy 7 over and over again?

To break it down:

- If I don't have any kind of speakers with the laptop and still want to hear e.g. the game music and such, I'd probably just opt for headphones.

- If it is on a secondary desk where I don't have my bigger Creative multimedia speakers, then I quite often opt for my old trusty Logitech V20 USB speakers. I've always felt they are marvellous, being so small that they fit nicely into a laptop bag, being USB-powered so they need no extra power, and sounding surprisingly good for their small size.

Of course nowadays portable Bluetooth speakers might be a pretty good option too and my small BOSE BT speaker does have very good sound quality for its small size, but I prefer the Logitech V20 with my laptops as they offer stereo sound.

For screen, I don't really have an issue using e.g. the 17" screen on my "main laptop" for pretty much all gaming. I have a 36" 1920x1080 monitor too and I quite often use it with my 15" laptop. And yes sometimes my laptop might be connected to the 65" TV as well, if I want to play some specific game on a biggest available screen. In such case I tend to use my wireless mouse and keyboard, which I can use just fine even when lying on the couch.

For ergonomics, I like to use an external wireless keyboard for gaming, but for most games I don't mind using the laptop's own keyboard as well. I never use the trackpad for gaming, but either an normal USB mouse or a wireless mouse.

So those are the setups I generally use while gaming. While it is true that my living room TV sound system has the best audio and the biggest 65" screen with best OLED colors, while playing on a 15" laptop screen with its own keyboard and an USB mouse and the V20 speakers or headphones is the "poorest" choice... I still enjoy my games on all those environments, and anything in between.

We all make "sacrifices" like that. For instance, watching movies is obviously best in a big screen cinema, yet most of us opt for watching most of our movies on our smaller TVs or even computer monitors from the Netflix or HBO or Disney services. Yet we don't really mind if we are not getting 100% the best possible experience.
Post edited February 27, 2021 by timppu
Posted February 27, 2021
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Carradice: Any recommendations for preserving battery life?
Not really. Don't do anything that uses lots of CPU and GPU power while on battery, I guess. And keep the screen brightness close to the minimum.
Posted February 27, 2021
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timppu: We all make "sacrifices" like that. For instance, watching movies is obviously best in a big screen cinema, yet most of us opt for watching most of our movies on our smaller TVs or even computer monitors from the Netflix or HBO or Disney services. Yet we don't really mind if we are not getting 100% the best possible experience.
I was specifically referring to sacrifices for the sake of flexibility, not for other reasons (budget, usually being a big one).
You might not mind some of those "sacrifices"; you still seem to confirm their existence - and that's all I was trying to say.

Also, I considered my post as a me-to-you. I don't care for talking about what the average person does or cares about. Does that even exist, the average person? Does that include the many millions of Indians that do all their computing on their 50$ smartphone? (just an example)
Posted February 27, 2021
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MysterD: I haven't done this, but this can be done w/ laptop to set-up a desktop-style GPU with it.

If you have Thunderbolt 3 (or better) - you can:
1. Get a small case (to put a desktop-style graphics card in).
2. A PSU (to handle the GPU's power/wattage).
3. Connect though TB3...but, expect the percentage in power-less to be huge (i.e. around 30%, IIRC).

Though, expect this method...to be pricey.
Yes, that is the approach that ASUS Flow X13 uses, and unlike the third-party eGPU offerings, ASUS RTX 3080 eGPU is small enough unit that I consider it portable too (ie. it fits into the same laptop bag where you'd but the laptop).

It is an interesting and logical approach, but too pricey for now. Albeit, I don't remember for now if that eGPU can display also on the laptop's own screen, or does it always require an external monitor... if it does, that is a definite drawback.
Posted February 27, 2021
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timppu: 90% of the time I use all my laptops on some flat surface (normally a desk), with an external mouse (because I don't like trackpads and only use them if I have no choice on the matter), and connected to the power (because why not, if there is power available?).
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rojimboo: THat being my point - why bother with a laptop then, when the usercase suits a desktop much better?
I fail to see how desktop would work for that situation, since it is not only one "desk" (or other flat surface) where I'd want to use it. Moving a desktop PC just to another room inside my home would be very cumbersome (along with its monitor etc.), let alone take it with me to e.g. our summer cottage, or when going for a month abroad.

All those other places have desk-like flat surfaces too, and power outlets.

While writing to this thread, I actually moved this laptop from our bedroom to the living room couch, as I want to watch a movie from TV at the same time. Try that with a desktop PC. :)

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rojimboo: Only when you value portability (or moving locations I guess like you said) compared to the cons of a gaming laptop vs a desktop, like increased cost, noise
I don't know why people claim laptops are noisier than desktops. My experience is exactly the opposite. Desktops are always much louder.

The only advantage for desktops might be that in full load (when laptop fans kick in at full power), the laptop fans tend to be higher pitched than the bigger desktop fans (which is more irritating), but the desktop still is louder.

To put it this way: would I rather try to sleep in a room where there is a desktop, or a laptop, running 24/7? Definitely a laptop, as it is considerably quieter.

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rojimboo: And that was a major PITA and nightmare, yet I would still do it NOT to have the ordeal of laptop gaming.
I have no idea what that "ordeal" is that you've had with laptop gaming, but I haven't had such. I've been quite happily gaming on laptops for many many years.

Desktop gaming to me feels nowadays that you have to dedicate a whole room mainly to your PC, and that is the only place where you can ever use that PC (gaming or otherwise). Not my thing, sorry.

And yeah, I still don't understand why some of you are so keen trying to "convince" laptop gamers that our choice is wrong, and we really should be desktop gaming instead. To me that is similar as those guys who are, to this day, trying to convince me that PC gaming in general is a stupid idea, and I should be playing on a PS4 or PS5 instead (which is what my colleague has told me when he learned I play games on a PC).

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teceem: I was specifically referring to sacrifices for the sake of flexibility, not for other reasons (budget, usually being a big one).
You might not mind some of those "sacrifices"; you still seem to confirm their existence - and that's all I was trying to say.
My point was that we all do such sacrifices.

For instance, what kind of display and audio system are you using for your PC gaming? Are you sure you couldn't have even a better display and audio, e.g. with your 65" OLED TV and the home theater system in the living room?

Maybe you would, but then you decide to play in the bedroom anyway with a smaller PC monitor and less powerful PC multimedia speakers because someone else tends to watch the TV while you are playing games, or you just don't want to move the PC between the bedroom and the living room.

So you make the conscious decision that playing the PC games in the bedroom is "good enough" experience for you, even if someone might call it a "sacrifice".
Post edited February 27, 2021 by timppu
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionWhat is a good gaming laptop these days?(78 posts)(78 posts)
(78 posts)