Posted June 05, 2011
high rated
Seems to me that a lot of people on this forum are arguing over whether witcher 2 is designed for PC or console.
I don't think that's what the issue really is. I see folks complaining about the UI, but UIs in PC games are no constant - they vary according to genre. I see folks complaining about the deep combat, but deep combat in PC games is hardly a given. it too varies according to genre.
I think this rift we're seeing in the community is actually based on what kind of RPG it is. is it an old school RPG, hewing as close as possible to the the tabletop template, where the dice are king? or is it a newer RPG, that leaves interaction and control in the hands of the player as much as possible?
imagine if you wipe away the UI and inventory for both the witcher 1 and witcher 2. imagine if you have consoles of equal power with PCs, that support KBAM for whatever games you desire. differences between the games would exist, and it's those differences that lie at the heart of the debate. That's what we should be talking about, not console/PC/UI/inventory stuff.
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i guess i'll start off: actual combat in the witcher 1 was handled completely out of sight - deep in the game code beyond the player's ability to affect it directly. the fancy sword moves, the styles, the rhythmic clicking - all were there to fancy up what was basically a dice-roll battle straight out of Risk. You saw Geralt approach an enemy and slice him to bits. The game saw Geralt encounter an enemy, win every dice roll/probability check, and concluded that Geralt therefore sliced that enemy to bits.
Now, that outcome was pretty much pre-determined. the player's chief interaction with the game is to choose talents that greatly improve your odds in the dice roll of combat. "The skill is in the build", you might say. Let's call this "top-down" RPG combat.
If each outcome is determined by factors you can only affect while leveling up, then what's the point of interactivity during combat, you ask? well, it's for 2 reasons.
the first, and most important reason, is so the player can choose how and when to use special abilities. these are signs like igni and aard that act as a nudge to the system, interrupting the dice game and improving the player's odds in big, discrete chunks. it adds an extra layer of skill to the combat, because in addition to planning ahead with alchemy, oils, and talents, the player can also decide to open a fight with a big igni blast, or only use it to finish off a group of foes. It's a tactical element.
the second reason is so the player does not lose interest in the fight! turn-based games also operate on dice rolls/probability checks, but they make you hit the "fight" button each turn just to keep you involved.
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combat in the witcher 2 is a very different beast from witcher 1. it's what i call "bottom-up" RPG combat. instead of combat being decided by probability, it takes the tactical element of special abilities and applies it to ALL combat interactions. no longer do you just choose when and how to use signs. you also choose how to move, when to attack, where to attack, when to defend, when to roll, etc. that's a lot of tactics to handle at once! fortunately, your talents are there to help.
This time, instead of talents shifting the odds of a dice roll in your favor, they bolster the tactical choices that the player makes. If you decide to block, then there's a talent that affects how much damage you take while blocking. put a point or two in that and suddenly blocking might become a much bigger part of your combat routine. likewise, you can choose to attack more with swords, or position yourself behind your enemies, or roll, or cast igni. any tactical combat action you take can be augmented by skills that will give you an advantage.
the emphasis, however, is on player freedom to use the tactics he or she wants. this is why you've seen youtube videos of people rolling everywhere - or videos of geralt standing in a group, blocking every attack that comes his way. you've seen videos where geralt uses signs to control the battle, and you've seen videos where geralt breaks the melee down into individual duels.
Now, some people are huge fans of the dice roll aspect of RPG combat, and that's why alchemy is present. it emphasizes proper preparation to increase your effectiveness in battle to scary amounts. you increase your odds just like you did in the first game - the only difference is that in the witcher 2, it's you who decide how, where, and when to throw the dice.
I don't think that's what the issue really is. I see folks complaining about the UI, but UIs in PC games are no constant - they vary according to genre. I see folks complaining about the deep combat, but deep combat in PC games is hardly a given. it too varies according to genre.
I think this rift we're seeing in the community is actually based on what kind of RPG it is. is it an old school RPG, hewing as close as possible to the the tabletop template, where the dice are king? or is it a newer RPG, that leaves interaction and control in the hands of the player as much as possible?
imagine if you wipe away the UI and inventory for both the witcher 1 and witcher 2. imagine if you have consoles of equal power with PCs, that support KBAM for whatever games you desire. differences between the games would exist, and it's those differences that lie at the heart of the debate. That's what we should be talking about, not console/PC/UI/inventory stuff.
______________________________________________________________________
i guess i'll start off: actual combat in the witcher 1 was handled completely out of sight - deep in the game code beyond the player's ability to affect it directly. the fancy sword moves, the styles, the rhythmic clicking - all were there to fancy up what was basically a dice-roll battle straight out of Risk. You saw Geralt approach an enemy and slice him to bits. The game saw Geralt encounter an enemy, win every dice roll/probability check, and concluded that Geralt therefore sliced that enemy to bits.
Now, that outcome was pretty much pre-determined. the player's chief interaction with the game is to choose talents that greatly improve your odds in the dice roll of combat. "The skill is in the build", you might say. Let's call this "top-down" RPG combat.
If each outcome is determined by factors you can only affect while leveling up, then what's the point of interactivity during combat, you ask? well, it's for 2 reasons.
the first, and most important reason, is so the player can choose how and when to use special abilities. these are signs like igni and aard that act as a nudge to the system, interrupting the dice game and improving the player's odds in big, discrete chunks. it adds an extra layer of skill to the combat, because in addition to planning ahead with alchemy, oils, and talents, the player can also decide to open a fight with a big igni blast, or only use it to finish off a group of foes. It's a tactical element.
the second reason is so the player does not lose interest in the fight! turn-based games also operate on dice rolls/probability checks, but they make you hit the "fight" button each turn just to keep you involved.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
combat in the witcher 2 is a very different beast from witcher 1. it's what i call "bottom-up" RPG combat. instead of combat being decided by probability, it takes the tactical element of special abilities and applies it to ALL combat interactions. no longer do you just choose when and how to use signs. you also choose how to move, when to attack, where to attack, when to defend, when to roll, etc. that's a lot of tactics to handle at once! fortunately, your talents are there to help.
This time, instead of talents shifting the odds of a dice roll in your favor, they bolster the tactical choices that the player makes. If you decide to block, then there's a talent that affects how much damage you take while blocking. put a point or two in that and suddenly blocking might become a much bigger part of your combat routine. likewise, you can choose to attack more with swords, or position yourself behind your enemies, or roll, or cast igni. any tactical combat action you take can be augmented by skills that will give you an advantage.
the emphasis, however, is on player freedom to use the tactics he or she wants. this is why you've seen youtube videos of people rolling everywhere - or videos of geralt standing in a group, blocking every attack that comes his way. you've seen videos where geralt uses signs to control the battle, and you've seen videos where geralt breaks the melee down into individual duels.
Now, some people are huge fans of the dice roll aspect of RPG combat, and that's why alchemy is present. it emphasizes proper preparation to increase your effectiveness in battle to scary amounts. you increase your odds just like you did in the first game - the only difference is that in the witcher 2, it's you who decide how, where, and when to throw the dice.
