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Baldur's Gate seriesWhy is Throne of Bhaal Hated?(100 posts)(100 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 08, 2015
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Pangaea666: From what I recall, the story of Tali was interesting, but other than that it wasn't all that much. And it's pretty messed up when the main story of a game is Recruit Team -> Kill some boss. It was paper thin.

The Invisible Man or whatever the hell they called him did my head in. So stupid. Gah! I get annoyed just thinking about it. Not least because they had such a great base to work with from the first game, and then they completely fucked it up. Throne of Bhaal wasn't great, but holy shit, it's a bloody master piece compared with the trai.. space ship crash that is Mass Effect 2 and 3.

Wouldn't mind playing through the first game again at some point, but beyond that the series lost all interest for me.

As for Ashley, since it was brought up above, I think her main role in the game was to show off her arse. Lowest common denominator and all that, BioWare loves to lap up that crap.

Oooof, I better stop writing before this turns into an angry red-faced and full-blown RANT :D
I liked all stories.... but I'm weird :D

I read somewhere that their main focus on Ashley was to make her "sexy", like hair is down, because it looks better..... ugh man, she is a soldier >_<
fun fact: one of the most popular mods is the one that changes Ashley's look back to her ME1 one, where she actually looked like a marine :P
Posted October 08, 2015
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Hickory: Nope, you're thinking of Miranda Lawson. Ugh!
Ahh yes, that was the broad's name.

And how about that Terminator at the end, good grief, that was so stupid I laughed out loud while playing.

Found myself doing an actual facepalm here, thinking back about this game... LOL
Posted October 08, 2015
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dtgreene: You could probably kill her by stat drain somehow. I believe she's immune to the mindflayer's attacks, so you may need to find some other method.

Of course, that will likely lead to a softlock, as it may become impossible for you to continue the game if you do this.
At worst, it should only prompt a visit from Biff the Understudy.
Posted October 08, 2015
ToB is bad for so many different reasons, many of which have already been mentioned.

Mine is that it was phoned in and wasn't an expansion, but a standalone game that just required you to own BG2.

Everything about ToB says the developer was lazy or had no interest in the project at all (which was probably the case) and was a way to get quick and easy cash from the fanbois and their new waifus.

I prefer to ignore ToB and pretend it just doesn't exist. I give it the Phantom Menace treatment.
Posted October 08, 2015
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Atlantico: ToB is bad for so many different reasons, many of which have already been mentioned.

Mine is that it was phoned in and wasn't an expansion, but a standalone game that just required you to own BG2.
Still it was more of an expansion that BG 1's expansion or IWD 1's expansion. Only reason why it doesn't feel like it, is because it isn't integrated directly into BG 2, which is a major flaw indeed.
Posted October 08, 2015
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Atlantico: ToB is bad for so many different reasons, many of which have already been mentioned.

Mine is that it was phoned in and wasn't an expansion, but a standalone game that just required you to own BG2.
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Sarisio: Still it was more of an expansion that BG 1's expansion or IWD 1's expansion. Only reason why it doesn't feel like it, is because it isn't integrated directly into BG 2, which is a major flaw indeed.
No, ToB didn't expand anything.

Thus not an expansion. In fact BG1's ToSC actually *expanded* the game, explorable areas, level cap, plot ... it's as much an expansion as one can possibly imagine.

It is the anti-ToB.

To emphasize further; an expansion *expands*, makes something of a certain size *larger*. After ToB, BG2 is exactly the same as before, thus *not* expanded. ToB is then just played as if it was a completely stand-alone game, because it is. It just requires you to own BG2 to play it.
Post edited October 08, 2015 by Atlantico
Posted October 08, 2015
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Atlantico: To emphasize further; an expansion *expands*, makes something of a certain size *larger*. After ToB, BG2 is exactly the same as before, thus *not* expanded. ToB is then just played as if it was a completely stand-alone game, because it is. It just requires you to own BG2 to play it.
That's exactly what I mean by "it isn't integrated directly into BG 2, which is a major flaw indeed."
Posted October 08, 2015
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Sarisio: Still it was more of an expansion that BG 1's expansion or IWD 1's expansion. Only reason why it doesn't feel like it, is because it isn't integrated directly into BG 2, which is a major flaw indeed.
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Atlantico: No, ToB didn't expand anything.

Thus not an expansion. In fact BG1's ToSC actually *expanded* the game, explorable areas, level cap, plot ... it's as much an expansion as one can possibly imagine.

It is the anti-ToB.

To emphasize further; an expansion *expands*, makes something of a certain size *larger*. After ToB, BG2 is exactly the same as before, thus *not* expanded. ToB is then just played as if it was a completely stand-alone game, because it is. It just requires you to own BG2 to play it.
Actually, you're wrong. BG2:SoA is expanded a little bit by ToB. You can access Watcher's Keep during a play-through of SoA, so even though its just one dungeon more, the game is technically expanded.

And you're wrong about Star Wars too. "Attack of the Clones" is worse than "The Phantom Menace."
Posted October 08, 2015
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Atlantico: rabid frothing
ToB raised the level cap, added Wild Mages, added HLAs and new spells, changed the functionality of several items, and added a massive side area to explore. The fact that it takes place after a point of no return in SoA's story doesn't make it "not an expansion." Just because you don't like something doesn't change its fundamental nature.
Posted October 08, 2015
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AndyBuzz: Indeed ToB is a bit short, very linear and the writing took a turn for the worse compared to SoA, that's true and doubtless. But to be honest I never did and I never will understand the people that praise BG's writing.
It was good enough for a fantasy game, it did its job, it was adequate, it was a serviceable story to move the game forward, with lively characters and not dull statbags, but never the exalted high literature some gits are making it to be.
So when I first played ToB I never even noticed that great downfall. Sure, Mellisan is poorer compared to Joneleth, although you have to take into account David Warner's enthralling performance. Without him Jon would be much less memorable. Sure, there are slightly more derp moments regarding writing, but it wasn't really all that different.
On the other hand I noticed all the things it did right. The magic system was expanded and became even more exciting, the items got more interesting, Watcher's Keep fulfilled the "great dungeon" part admirably and I got my party in a whole lot of fights (the best aspect of BG) up until the end to a satisfactory conclusion.

It was many years later that I learned that I should hate ToB because it was a piece of shit with no redeeming qualities, besmirching the good name of SoA, the shining beacon and high pinnacle of gaming achievement.

Of course I would love to have an expansion as long as the main game, with no regressions in quality, building up to all the aspects of SoA that made it great, but such is life. And what we got is good enough.

TL;DR: ToB's greatest weakness is linearity, otherwise is a worthy expansion to SoA.
+1 to you answer, for me the history is well closed with the expansion.
Posted October 08, 2015
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dtgreene: You could probably kill her by stat drain somehow. I believe she's immune to the mindflayer's attacks, so you may need to find some other method.

Of course, that will likely lead to a softlock, as it may become impossible for you to continue the game if you do this.
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GeistSR: At worst, it should only prompt a visit from Biff the Understudy.
Biff the Understudy only does that in Baldur's Gate 1. In 2, he is only a minor character who (badly) plays a role in a certain play. The devolopers decided to instead make essential characters unkilable (by giving them items (such as Imoen's Belt) that prevent HP from dropping below 1) to prevent the situation in the first place, but didn't put any safety hatch in case it somehow did happen.

Of course, the developers neglected to make essential characters immune to ability damage, and as a result, they can be killed. When this happens, the game doesn't have any fallback to allow the game to continue, and as a result, the game softlocks if you use this method to kill the wrong character.

By the way, Phantasy Star 3 has a softlock that has some amusing dialogue associated with it (meaning the developers knew about the softlock, but didn't bother to fix it). Start a new game and buy an ESCAPIPE right away. Then get thrown in jail, and as soon as you regain control, use the ESCAPIPE. (This softlocks the game.) Now go up to the king and see what he says. (Also, notice that Maia is still there, though the game doesn't recognize attempts to talk to her.)
Posted October 08, 2015
Bioware could have made a nice game just around Talia and her planets situation. That could have been a big enough adventure why make it about the entire galaxy all the time! Plus, then there would still be a game universe with other stories to tell. SoA was a fine enough story and ToB just felt like it kept trying to get more big or important which was unnecessary. Would rather had a TotSC expansion (or a 3rd game), but that's just my preference.
Posted October 08, 2015
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vsommers12: Bioware could have made a nice game just around Talia and her planets situation.
Talia? It's Tali. Tali'Zorah.
Posted October 08, 2015
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vsommers12: Bioware could have made a nice game just around Talia and her planets situation.
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Hickory: Talia? It's Tali. Tali'Zorah.
bruh, we were....intimate.... i think i know what she likes to be called! *high-five*
Posted October 08, 2015
I forgot about Imoen's Belt. Still, I'd much rather see Biff's attempt to claim the throne of murder. I think he might have what it takes.
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Baldur's Gate seriesWhy is Throne of Bhaal Hated?(100 posts)(100 posts)
(100 posts)